Alles Ohne Clubs in Germany

[Yellowcake .]

Laluna is a AO club, you have the choice of a cheaper regular session or the higher priced AO rate. I've never been there but have heard that the club is a small rundown hole in the wall.

 

[*hey*[:]

I have never read such a big lie nonsense Worldsexguide. I heard about STD through campaigns developped in Romania.

 

[AdvicePlease]

I was in Moscow '05 and '06. I understand your point and of course I'm not going to say that there aren't clueless working girls in Eastern Europe and all over the world. In Moscow I met Ukranian and Russian Tochka girls who were not very educated at all about STDs. A couple told me they believed you could only contract HIV through IV drug use and not sex. Working girls this uninformed are a minority though and tend to be very young and new to the biz. My only point is that the vast majority of WGs tend to be fairly educated about STDS but among them you'll still find some who choose to do bbfs either selectively or indiscriminately with clients despite the risk.

I rarely do bbfs with WGs but I sort of understand where the guys that look for this are coming from. I only accept BBBJs and won't take a girl if she only does CBJs. I never understood the point of getting a cbj. I'd rather receive a handjob from myself than a CBJ from a girl. This is one of the reasons that I love the FKK clubs and Rio Termas so much because bbbj is universal in both these places. BBBJs are usually much more of a hit and miss at other p4p venues around the world. The idea of being surrounded by a bunch of beautiful women who are willing to suck a dick w/o a rubber and eat cum is what makes mongering worthwhile as far as I''m concerned.

To each his own.

 

[VasileZalupu]

Lebowski,

that is pretty much bullshit what you are writing there. And with a bit of logic you could see it yourself.

The clubs have not been established to get the girls from "low-price" streets with low margins for the pimps into "high-price" clubs with high margins for the pimps.

The streets in rural areas are very few, where girls would be tolerated to work and even in small towns nobody wants to have them in an exposed place open for all the people to see.

THAT is the reason, why there are so many clubs. That and nothing else!

Mit freundlichem Gru

 

[cherry kitty]

This is not true - there is no more STDs in E. Europe than in Antarctica...these campaigns have been developed to raise the prices and get girls into clubs and houses where they take a some of the cut, a piece of the cherry pie...they should ban these places and put all the girls on the street again for prices which are affordable!

 

[Jocelyn]

When? And where?

Of course you will find in the metropoles such as Moscow another level of education and informedness than in some more rural areas or smaller towns.

Moreover than that nobody discussed the wide spreading of HIV as such, but you can

 

[ermy]

I've been to Russia twice....

 

[Andrew F]

Instead of writing bullshits, you should have gone to Eastern Europe in the 2000's.

 

[Petra]

This analysis operates under the assumption that prostitutes who engage in unsafe sex do so because of a lack of education about disease transmission. While in some cases this is true it certainly doesn't apply to all of them. Some who do it are actually very educated about STDs and do it for other reasons. The very first time I did BBFS with a provider was with an escort in the US who actually was far more educated about STDs than I was. She was the first to tell me about the different types of HIV tests and that she only got the PCR DNA test done. I thought she was just another bullshit artist but after doing my own research I found out that everything she said was true. There are ignorant providers to be sure but there are many knowledgable, quite saavy providers as well. Alot of girls who enter into this profession are not completely ignorant at all. They just live day to day and don't necessarily think of the consequences of their actions or what tomorrow may bring. I think they are driven mostly by greed and a crazy lifestyle.

As to why some girls do it in FKK clubs may be in part because they're working in an upscale, assembly line type, high pressure environment where, like Wildfly pointed out, the more average looking girls have to compete with stunners to make real money. Couple that with slow nights where there aren't many customers and the girls are more desperate knowing that they have to session twice before making money to pay the entrance fee thus making them more desperate to get you to take them to the room. I had one girl at Oase tell me I could fuck her ass bare for 50 extra euros one time when the club was practically dead just to get me in the room - no thanks Sally.

I think this talk of BB services at times being practiced at FKK clubs causing some large increase in STDs is greatly exaggerated. Many of the girls who do these sorts of things don't always do it and don't do it with everybody. The risk of some kind of widespread outbreak of HIV from occasional bbfs at FKKs is almost negligible.

 

[Avril Lavigne]

Condsiderably less risky in terms of HIV/Aids maybe, at least that is what is being said.
But certainly not less risky in terms of all other diseases that you can get or can transmit. Read around in the health-section of this forum and you will see that almost unanimously this is agreed upon.


The German girls in the numerous places, that I know in Northern Germany, are definitely a minority. In the FKK

 

[bushisajerk]

You just distorted what I wrote. Please do not pretend to be a smart guy, if you are not abble to understand.

It's been a deeply anchored used to practice BBBJ widely spread in a population of girls who ignored the danger of such an habit. I don't know if they were used by pimps by Concerned wrote so and I am quite ready to believe him.
I saw many of these girls coming to Western Europe and starting with BBBJ as well as protected intercourse. Many changed their habits after having been explained the danger of BBBJ.

But the main danger in FKKs comes from the high number of customers they will suck (and fuck) daily without protection. It has been demonstrated that many people in swappers circles contaminated friends after having been contaminated in FKKs.

 

[E-ma]

Do you deny that unprotected oral sex is considerably less risky than unprotected intercourse? If so, then I think you're the first (educated) person I've met who believes that given the vast academic literature on this topic.

Second, while many of the FKK girls are from Eastern Europe, there are a fair amount of German girls and girls from other Western European countries. Are you arguing that these girls too have been purposely kept ignorant by awfull pimps who chain them to bed every night and make them walk on burning coal when they don't earn?

If you go to Amsterdam, London, Madrid, even Las Vegas, etc. etc. you'll find many local girls freely offering BBBJ but not bareback intercourse. Have they all been deliberately brainwashed by their pimps?

At some level of intelligent thought, you have to believe that many girls simply make their own choices for their own reasons.

 

[Crystal M]

So you waited for 4 years to post a first comment as stupid as this one. I have traveled in Eastern Europe since the mid 2000's. A few years ago, you could still find girls who paid no attention to their health and would give a BBBJ for almost nothing.

TV programms didnot deal with the subject. I started hearing a few comments in 2008 at the time girls were withdrawing from street action. If you had gone there, you would have realized that TV, broadcasting, internet or schools are for nothing in these campaigns.

 

[ladies man501]

Nonsens.
I think you believe they have in Eastern Europe no television, no broadcasting, no internet, no newspapers, no schools ?

Eastern Europe is not "Third World".


S.

 

[eldude]

Most of these girls came from Eastern Europe where they had never heard about STD especially nor HIV infections. Tourism developped in Eastern Europe where sex without condom was usual, especially oral without.

Since then, HIV infection has broken records in Eastern Europe and health campaigns have developped. As a result, the number of street/road prostitutes (at low prices) has been sharply reduced and girls do take care about their own protection against STD.

It seems that girls working in German clubs have been kept out of reach o such campaigns, probably using arguments as Wildfly's. Yet, girls get more protected when they work in Spain since the authorities of this country do no want that poor young ladies die just to sell low cost pleasure to careless guys.

 

[Doethineb]

Concerned,

My view is informed by my own experiences and I admit that these may not be completely representative. But I think the media/press has a specific (biased and moralized) slant on this subject that they generally want to push that view no matter what the facts are. I suspect the "police" probably share that perspective as well.

Whatever our views are on this, it is still the case that the vast majority of working girls in FKK/saunaclubs/brothels practice safe sex? [It is well known that transmitting HIV through unprotected oral sex is very low.] And in the vast majority of these clubs, if you tried to force a girl to have unprotected sex you would be in some trouble. So again the vast majority of these clubs actually protect their girls because they work in a controlled environment where the customer must abide by certain rules. You can't physically or verbally abuse the women or force them to do something beyond the pre-agreed limits.

Therefore, by this perfectly objective standard the truly despicable pimps that you are describing who force the girls to every extreme including bareback sex are in a very small minority. I don't think this is in dispute although we can disagree about some specifics?

We can also agree that some situations are depressing but it is still true that the many of these girls end up earning more money doing what they are doing than they could possibly dream of back home. And a good part of these women are single parents who could not provide for their children by any other means.

Finally as for the lawsuit, etc, I was specifically thinking about the authorities taking criminal and civil actions against the club owners, pimps, etc, for endangering public health. That would be well publicized in order to send a message to other businesses that engage in similar activities. As for girls being in Germany illegally, etc, I would have thought that this is less of an issue after the creation of the EU?

WF

 

[~vanilla~]

Wildfly, that is no exaggeration, that is FACT. Ask anybody who is involved in anti-vice and they can tell you stories, which they did not invent, which let you shudder!




That is exactly the point. They are under pressure to earn money both, due to the general "market"-situation as described by you AND due to the fact, that their pimps are pressing them.
You also mentioned that maybe the stunners don

 

[Pompal 09.]

Iancu, Concerned:

I don't doubt that some of this harassment goes on but I think it tends to be exaggerated. My own view is that many, if not most, of these girls are making their own choices.

And then you might ask why would these girls choose to take far more risk on their own? Not being very scientific here, my view is that based on photographs, etc many of the girls that offer riskier services may not be judged as

 

[Red Sox 4 Life!]

Well said, Iancu, 100% agreement from my side!!!

Greetings,

Concerned

 

[dmx87]

It's very fair of you to point out the situation. So many customers/mongers visiting FKKs behave like ostriches brying their heads in the sand instead of daring tell the truth.